[scottelderado]

Smokus, I totally forgot about the base steering wheel. That is, if I ever knew about it in the first place. Looks really great. Indeed, somehow the leather looks "cheaper." Worth the effort. Bravo sir. Car is looking very good.

 

[scottelderado]

Find the steering wheel on ebay? Private party? Junkyard?

 

[smokuspollutus]

Thanks Scott, the wheel was an ebay find. I'm super happy with the change-finally a visible improvement after all this!

 

[Can2]

Thank you Max. The first Cadillac I remember hearing with the door bell chime was the 1977 (or 78?) Seville that also had the old school buzzer if you left the key in the ignition. Some other cars had an electronic tone and the door bell. My 84 only has a door bell chime. Talk about not updating, I swear that Ford used the same brake pedal on almost every car they made forever. Lincolns, Broncos, Explorers, everything!

Smokus, are you still in the Cad game? Love your thread as I too have a very similar Eldorado and purchased it in 2016/March. Do you still own the car?

 

[smokuspollutus]

Smokus, are you still in the Cad game? Love your thread as I too have a very similar Eldorado and purchased it in 2016/March. Do you still own the car? View attachment 576747 View attachment 576749

Hi, yes, still very much a player! I've just been really busy with work since my last update, which is coincidentally the last time any real tangible changes/progress has been made. I only accrued about 700 miles on the car last year, and half of those miles were from one trip. Still, there are some updates to throw in here, let me try to get some pictures ready tonight-thanks for the reminder.

Your car looks to be very similar, even with the dual color pinstripe. Nice find, what's it's story?

 

[smokuspollutus]

It's hard to believe it's been almost 8 months since I've updated this. Unfortunately my eyes seem to have been bigger than my calendar and I haven't got a whole heck of a lot done as far as work. My garage, however, is filled to bursting with stuff waiting to be installed-big things planned!

I started this thread because I love the 79-85 Eldo. I think that GM hit it out of the park in basically every respect: perfect size, all weather usability, HVAC, comfort, and of course the fantastic look. Aa lot of people share this sentiment, I can even recall being in these cars when they were just used cars in the 90s and early 2000's and people coming up and complimenting the look. As the car has aged even more from there to the point of being a "classic", I was actually taken aback when I first had the car at the amount of attention it attracts. Everyone knows what it is and it brings a smile to their face, young, old, women, men alike. I think that if there was a way to quantify a successful design, that would probably be it.

Now, that's not to say that they didn't give it a couple of good hickeys that are not easy to overcome (lets face it, GM always screws up somewhere).

The first problem are the wheels. 90% of these came with steel wheels from the factory, and 90% of that group wore wire hubcaps over them. The hubcaps fit the look of the car, but are kind of a joke as far as usability, ie there are tons of dinky pieces of pot metal spokes pressed into an equally dinky piece of metal on one side, and into plastic on the other, are then beaten onto the steel wheel, locked in with a "locking" screw that threads into a pot metal retainer around eccentric lug nuts, topped off with a pop in emblem. The user is then expected to actually drive the car with these things, that invariably unseat themselves in turns, get dirty from brake dust, and of course take a pounding on bumps, creating a ticking/plinging mess that needs constant upkeep to stay at least looking good. The rest of them ordered with hubcaps had the base caps, which depending on the year actually look pretty good, but are like old school hubcaps in that they have no lock and will fly off in a hard enough turn.

9.99% were ordered with the aluminum road wheels. A lot of people don't like the way they look, but I for one happen to like them. They have all the benefits of being lighter, and are way less rattle prone. But again, a lot of people don't care for the look, and even as someone who does like them, I can say they don't fit the look of the car as well as the wire hubcaps do-at least as most of these came, in loud colors with lots of chrome and landau roofs.

A lot of these cars were dressed up by the dealers in the 80s with Appliance true wire wheels. Appliance made the factory offered wire wheels for the RWD models at the time, and those are pretty good. Appliance also made the wire wheels for the 1983 Riviera anniversary edition, a super limited production car. However, GM never offered a wire wheel on any of their front wheel drive regular production cars from the factory. Why? The reason is simple, it is impossible to make a wire wheel with the hub set out far enough for a front wheel drive setup, and still have it strong enough to take a pounding on potholes and stay true. Or at least stay true enough to not have people coming in for warranty work after driving 60+ miles an hour.

Appliance did about as good as you can do in making a strong wire wheel but after enough use (at least here in NY) they would all develop some degree of incurable shake on the highway and popping at low speeds. Center cap was kinda chintzy, chrome longevity was meh, etc.

There are lots of genuine wires with a 5 x 4.75 bolt pattern that physically fit on the car-some even made for front wheel drive. Most are RWD however and look ridiculous when mounted up. That doesn’t seem to stop people from trying it though. This is where the the 79-85 Eldo adds another complication-tiny rear wheel wells. The square wheel arch makes the rear wheel wells the smallest of the Toro/Riv/Seville family. With any more offset then factory (which all true wires have to have to be strong enough to support the weight of the car) you begin to rub on the wheel arch. Appliance is the best of the bunch here, but with enough weight in the rear of the car, even they rub on bumps. Other alternatives are totally off the hook and will slice up the sidewall as you drive.

TL, DR: wheels suck on these cars.

The second, and by far more documented problem are the powerplants. EVERY year, from 79-85 had a powerplant that was in some way shape or form, sucky. I’ll only deal with the gas V8’s as almost all of these cars came with that choice anyway.

79: Bendix fuel injected Olds 350-real space age engineering with analog computer, loud externally mounted fuel pump, and reliability and drivability to match. Speaking of “match” there’s a reason so many 79 Eldos and 76-79 Sevilles are available with fire damage. These can be converted to carb with some work, but leaves you with the sucky 3 speed trans and super steep axle ratio. I have been spoiled and don’t miss or mess with carburetors or 3 speeds anymore. Sadly this was the most powerful engine offered in the production run at ~170hp.

80: Cadillac 6.0 with throttle body injection grafted onto it. Same sucky 3-speed, with the addition of a thirstier, slower motor. Lots of one or two year only fuel injection parts (MAP/BARO, etc.), AIR system that someone could have made in their backyard, and an overall clunky drivability. An ’80 Eldo is the car I learned to FIRMLY hold the brake when stuck in traffic with the AC on. If you’ve driven one of these, you’ll understand what I’m getting at.



81: V8-6-4, with largely the same issues as above, with the addition of plastic valve covers. I never found the cylinder deactivation to be that bad, just felt like driving with a lot of gears-constant shifting going on. It was more of a gimmick as it never saved any gas anyway, assuming you drive outside of Florida at speeds greater than 55.

82-85: HT4100, with loads of potentially fatal issues and low power. Finally got a 4 speed and a lighter front end weight, with reliable and serviceable fuel injection, and eventually better catalytic converters and oil-tightness.

Because of the narrow frame design and low hood, it is next to impossible to fit other more modern powerplants that will reconcile with the bellhousing, transmission, axle and available space.

TL, DR: 79-81 have durable, heavy, low output, thirsty powerplants that don’t run right, 82-85 have lower output, mechanically unsound powerplants with great control systems and design concepts. Almost impossible to fit other engines in the space.

That last point is where the story begins:

When I was searching for my Eldo, I wanted a car that could get me back in a beautiful Cadillac, that I could drive every day, use up, and not feel bad about driving into the ground. Experience said 4100 car, from outside the northeast/Midwest, preferably highly optioned. So I ended up with the ’84 California car that the past 15+ pages (maybe more or less depending on how they plan to screw the website up next) you’ve all so diligently watched me gush about.

Anyway, I ended up falling in love with the car and did not do that. The condition was actually too nice to subject it to abuse. The car has never seen a NY winter in the 5 years I’ve had it, and these days rarely even sees rain. I now consider myself to be the custodian of the car.

At the same time, I realize what the car is and isn’t. It is very clean. It is an anomaly in its color combination. It is fairly original. It is NOT a 10 or even 20 some-odd thousand mile garage queen. It is not a virgin. As such, I must respect the car and the guy who came before me in preserving the car, all the while suiting it for my enjoyment.

We mentioned two problems I had with the chassis above. In my usual fashion, I decided to tackle the second one first.

GM had a horrible turkey with the 4100 engine in its original form. After years of development though, they were able to turn it into some of Cadillac’s finest motors; the 4.5 and 4.9 liter V8’s that had great economy, power, and reliability. There were relatively few changes to the original design that actually made this possible though, amounting to not much more than a roller camshaft, better intake manifold sealing, larger oil pump, some structural reinforcements, and larger displacement. Not exactly rocket science, because the design was generally sound. However, the Eldo was long out of production by the time that these improvements were made, and none of them ever found their way into the first-gen 4100 equipped cars.

Except that’s not true.

As GM was replacing engines en-masse in the late 80s and 90s, NEW (not remanufactured) 4100 engines made by General Motors for direct replacement in 82-85 longitudinal Cadillacs were built with the exact same structural enhancements that the then-current transverse 4.5’s and 4.9’s were. To keep them a bolt-in replacement for the failed engines they replaced, the smaller displacement was retained however, so while not a “go-fast” modification, such an engine removed any inherent problems that a 4100 engine may have faced. The castings that were added as reinforcements against the extra power the 4.5 and 4.9 developed also found their way into this, despite not being necessary. In short, they were drastically over-built for their intended purpose, and many of them racked up the miles until the cars they were attached to fell apart.

Now, knowing such an engine existed was one thing, but finding one would be a whole different issue. Where to turn for a question like this-the Cadillac Forum!

After a lot of searching, I came across an ad over in RWD by user BigCadMan_1 from way back in 2014. He was selling drumroll a 4100 Goodwrench replacement engine! Of course the ad was some 5 years old at that point and he was in Canada. I shot the user a message figuring it was long since sold or junked. Imagine my surprise when I got a positive reply, the engine was still available!

After exchanging numbers, Rene and I spoke on the phone, I couldn’t help but feel we were kindred spirits. After hearing my plans, Rene made a fantastic offer on the engine and all his spare 79-85 parts, and I gratefully accepted. Now all that stood between me and my prize was a passport and a 15 hours of driving.

Rene and I continued talking shop, when I mentioned the one other thing that I would really want to add to this car to make it “complete”-if you’ll remember way far up at the beginning of this post, you’ll see that I wrote with absolute metaphysical certitude that 90% of these cars left Linden assembly with steel wheels, and the remaining 9.99% were equipped with aluminum turbine rims. But that doesn’t sum to 100%. The other .01% of 1985 models only had a wheel that combined the light weight and tightness of the aluminum rim, with the fantastic look of the wire, without any of the structural problems of a true wire rim, and the standard offset of a factory unit (because they are) so as not to rub. Upon mentioning this rim to Rene, he knew exactly what I was talking about. We both remarked as to their rareness and left it at that, and promised to shore up a date as soon as I had a passport in hand.

I was surprised again a few days later when I got a text from Rene-a link to a complete set of the wheels we were talking about that had popped up for sale on Kijiji, the Canadian craigslist! The seller only spoke French, but Rene being bilingual offered to broker the deal, and even travel to pick up the rims so I could only have to make one stop at his house in Canada. Wow. I will not lie. I was NY skeptical of this to the max. But I didn’t want to waste the opportunity, and we arranged it.

Long story short, (ha) I traveled to Canada over the summer, and picked up a Goodwrench HT4100, 4 aluminum faux wire wheels, and a host of 79-85 parts. Rene is an absolute gentleman and helped me out past even what I could have ever hoped for. Thanks doesn’t even do it justice.

At the risk of losing the viewership with the verbage, please, see pictures!

The prize

Notice the block ribbing forming ^ ^ ^ ^ shapes along the line of the air pump

Before:

minus steel wheels & vogues, plus aluminum faux wires and cooper tires

So I went for some instant gratification here and did the rims first. But didn’t I say that was the first problem anyway? The engine awaits big things in storage at my house in upstate NY, slated for post-April 15th work. But I’ll give a sneak preview to anyone familiar enough with a 4.x engine who may know what this is

TL, DR: Smokus got some new rims and tires, unthreaded 20 lug nuts, and rethreaded 20 lug nuts on his Eldo since May.

 

[the APEMAN]

Great writing style and content Smokus!

This is how old cars should be enjoyed!

 

[Can2]

Hi, yes, still very much a player! I've just been really busy with work since my last update, which is coincidentally the last time any real tangible changes/progress has been made. I only accrued about 700 miles on the car last year, and half of those miles were from one trip. Still, there are some updates to throw in here, let me try to get some pictures ready tonight-thanks for the reminder.

Your car looks to be very similar, even with the dual color pinstripe. Nice find, what's it's story?

This car is a Designer Edition from Nabors Cadillac in Costa Mesa Ca.
It was a trade-in in 1987. Purchased by the second owners same year and landed directly here in Oregon. When he passed away she parked it nicely in the barn and bought a new Cadillac. It sat for about 8 years when I found it in craigslist.
Went through it and drove it cross country. The overall condition is great with the only real issue being the sunroof, it doesn't work , tried to fix it but the cable drive casing broke down at the motor. It worked only once and the cable again failed. Also, it has a drain problem on the front passenger side. It is kinked or blocked somewhere around the top of the door. Because of this I only drive it on fair weather days for now.
Still searching for the passenger chrome trim on the front that covers the stainless roof and the two outer clips to secure it. Had a huge snow storm in February of 19 and at the time it was under a car canopy and it collapsed on the car and broke that trim piece and dinged the hood. So it was recently repainted along with ABS bumper fillers because they all blew off when I went cross country.
The motor is tight and the trans has been serviced twice for good measure. It gets at least 20 mpg and much better of the open road. AC is still R-12 and chilly cold. Radiator was rebuilt, brake lines flushed, fuel filter , new Magnaflow muffler, corrected the slop in the trans linkage with some door hinge bushings (perfect alignment now)
New wires,plugs, cap,rotor and Accel performance coil. Belts,hoses ect.
Paint is a great driver quality and the hood respray is flawless so I'm content. If it were any better I would be afraid to drive it. Any ideas on the sunroof?..are the draintubes accessible without dropping the headliner? I dread it actually.

 

[DB2Guy]

I'll watch for four tires and wire spoke rims on eBay. LOL I still prefer the OEM hubcaps and Vogue tyres. Actually I like the earlier wire hubcaps with the large chrome caps. Finding a good set of those isn't easy.

You left out the address where that motor is at. Should fit in my '84's with no problem. LOL Lucky find. Yeah not too many of those sitting around.

 

[smokuspollutus]

This car is a Designer Edition from Nabors Cadillac in Costa Mesa Ca.
It was a trade-in in 1987. Purchased by the second owners same year and landed directly here in Oregon. When he passed away she parked it nicely in the barn and bought a new Cadillac. It sat for about 8 years when I found it in craigslist.
Went through it and drove it cross country. The overall condition is great with the only real issue being the sunroof, it doesn't work , tried to fix it but the cable drive casing broke down at the motor. It worked only once and the cable again failed. Also, it has a drain problem on the front passenger side. It is kinked or blocked somewhere around the top of the door. Because of this I only drive it on fair weather days for now.
Still searching for the passenger chrome trim on the front that covers the stainless roof and the two outer clips to secure it. Had a huge snow storm in February of 19 and at the time it was under a car canopy and it collapsed on the car and broke that trim piece and dinged the hood. So it was recently repainted along with ABS bumper fillers because they all blew off when I went cross country.
The motor is tight and the trans has been serviced twice for good measure. It gets at least 20 mpg and much better of the open road. AC is still R-12 and chilly cold. Radiator was rebuilt, brake lines flushed, fuel filter , new Magnaflow muffler, corrected the slop in the trans linkage with some door hinge bushings (perfect alignment now)
New wires,plugs, cap,rotor and Accel performance coil. Belts,hoses ect.
Paint is a great driver quality and the hood respray is flawless so I'm content. If it were any better I would be afraid to drive it. Any ideas on the sunroof?..are the draintubes accessible without dropping the headliner? I dread it actually.

Sounds like an amazing find. Pacific northwest is probably the best environment for preserving cars, no salt on the roads, but without the high temperature and sun exposure. Enjoy the car!

Is the roof factory or aftermarket? Factory has a control switch integrated into the map light assembly, aftermarket of course varies. Factory will have a headliner board, and aftermarket will not-but either way you will have to get behind the material to look at the drains. Which at this age means doing the headliner as it will begin to fall apart as you touch it if original. Additionally, on a sunroof car you need to drop the sunroof assembly to get the sunshade out to recover. Kind of a big job.

The front drains run down to just over the door hinges in the pillar. You should be able to find it pretty easily and see if it's clogged on the end. If it ends up needing a new seal, the good news is that these share a sunroof assembly with the G-body and the seal is reproduced.

 

[smokuspollutus]

Great writing style and content Smokus!

This is how old cars should be enjoyed!

Thanks Ape! Resolve to drive it a lot more this coming year once the roads are cleaned.

 

[smokuspollutus]

I'll watch for four tires and wire spoke rims on eBay. LOL I still prefer the OEM hubcaps and Vogue tyres. Actually I like the earlier wire hubcaps with the large chrome caps. Finding a good set of those isn't easy.

You left out the address where that motor is at. Should fit in my '84's with no problem. LOL Lucky find. Yeah not too many of those sitting around.

LOL Tim, my "Eldorado sprawl" has no reached far enough to get into my attic where I put the other rims and tires, in case I do something crazy like buy another 79-85 with bad tires...?

 

[Can2]

Sounds like an amazing find. Pacific northwest is probably the best environment for preserving cars, no salt on the roads, but without the high temperature and sun exposure. Enjoy the car!

Is the roof factory or aftermarket? Factory has a control switch integrated into the map light assembly, aftermarket of course varies. Factory will have a headliner board, and aftermarket will not-but either way you will have to get behind the material to look at the drains. Which at this age means doing the headliner as it will begin to fall apart as you touch it if original. Additionally, on a sunroof car you need to drop the sunroof assembly to get the sunshade out to recover. Kind of a big job.

The front drains run down to just over the door hinges in the pillar. You should be able to find it pretty easily and see if it's clogged on the end. If it ends up needing a new seal, the good news is that these share a sunroof assembly with the G-body and the seal is reproduced.

Do you have a link for a sunroof seal?

 

[DB2Guy]

LOL Tim, my "Eldorado sprawl" has no reached far enough to get into my attic where I put the other rims and tires, in case I do something crazy like buy another 79-85 with bad tires...?

I found you one on copart. All it needs is an engine. You know anyone with a spare engine?
Actually it looks to be in good condition. I would say the mileage is probably accurate based on the drivers seat wear.

https://www.copart.com/lot/43056968

 

[smokuspollutus]

Do you have a link for a sunroof seal?

Have you confirmed it is a factory sunroof? If so "G body sunroof seal" should get you to where you need to be.

I found you one on copart. All it needs is an engine. You know anyone with a spare engine?
Actually it looks to be in good condition. I would say the mileage is probably accurate based on the drivers seat wear.

https://www.copart.com/lot/43056968

It might make me the first person to ever put an HT4100 in a car that didn't come with one.

 

[CaddyGas]

Smokus, what's the update? Hope all is well!

 

[BaseDeville]

How difficult would it be to put an Olds 350 or 403 in a 79-85 Eldorado? Since the 79 had an Olds block would it be the easiest year to do a swap? With a Holley Sniper EFI conversion could this be the best of both worlds?

 

[FTSS]

How difficult would it be to put an Olds 350 or 403 in a 79-85 Eldorado? .......

1/2 way through smokuspollutus' sad recounting of the motors up there I wondered exactly the same. It also brought back memories 35 years back with my '80 Riviera (last year with the Olds 350). Soon after I got it (in '84), the (apparently envious) son of my employer's owner got about an '81 Eldorado (whatever one had that crap 4-6-8 motor). It was always in the shop and he took to trying to blame me for letting him buy it. I didn't know anything about that engine then except that it provided me many quiet smiles when he whined about it. FWIW, get the Olds 350 if you can. A friend got a Toronado with the 403 Olds (a '79 or '80) and I could always womp him.

 

[smokuspollutus]

Smokus, what's the update? Hope all is well!

Hi-have got a lot done over the past 6 months and its just a question of time to write and putting all the pictures together. Work has thankfully slowed down as of yesterday for the next couple of months, update should come soon!

 

[smokuspollutus]

How difficult would it be to put an Olds 350 or 403 in a 79-85 Eldorado? Since the 79 had an Olds block would it be the easiest year to do a swap? With a Holley Sniper EFI conversion could this be the best of both worlds?

1/2 way through smokuspollutus' sad recounting of the motors up there I wondered exactly the same. It also brought back memories 35 years back with my '80 Riviera (last year with the Olds 350). Soon after I got it (in '84), the (apparently envious) son of my employer's owner got about an '81 Eldorado (whatever one had that crap 4-6-8 motor). It was always in the shop and he took to trying to blame me for letting him buy it. I didn't know anything about that engine then except that it provided me many quiet smiles when he whined about it. FWIW, get the Olds 350 if you can. A friend got a Toronado with the 403 Olds (I think also and '80) and I could always womp him.

Re: Olds 350, difficulty depends on the result you want. If you're very creative and good with a torch, it can be done but will probably look very ugly and have issues. To have it "as it should have been"-you basically need an 82-85 Riv or Toronado with a 307 for column, manifolds, y pipe, oil pan, mounts, shroud and suspension to put on a better (larger) small block Olds. There are a lot of little differences between the 79-81 and 82-85 in where the engine sits and how it and the transmission mount. This of course assumes you can find a donor car for the right price with everything in good enough shape to install that you won't feel bad about mutilating.

With the complete donor car I'm sure it could be done, and even retain the Cadillac TBI for simplicity. For me it is not really an option because I don't like the way the iron engines make the car feel so heavy in the front. Additionally I'm not too sure about how the transmission would withstand significantly larger amounts of power that a 350 or 403 can make.